AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

You have to see it, if you're gonna HIT it.

TWS offers the premium optic mount solution for
the legendary AK battle rifle.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I wonder how well those keep zero when cleaning.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Doesn't fit Yugos....Boooooooooo

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

CLEANING? AKs don't need to be cleaned.....ever!:smile:

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I was wondering how accurate an AK is out to say 200 yards?

After looking around, I found this on YT....as you can see, there is some muzzle wobble with the AK
I guess my question is, would it be practical to mount a scope on an AK?
**oh, and, how cool would it be to have a 200 yard indoor range?

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I wonder why you'd need a maginfying scope on an AK :tongue_ma:

Now, a good Red Dot, sure.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

+1 :yes:

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

[QUOTE=Willie Peter;1911113]I was wondering how accurate an AK is out to say 200 yards?

After looking around, I found this on YT....as you can see, there is some muzzle wobble with the AK
I guess my question is, would it be practical to mount a scope on an AK?
**oh, and, how cool would it be to have a 200 yard indoor range?


This is what I tell everyone about the AK.......not an accurate rifle.....

I went to the small arms school at Camp Perry about 15 years ago. There were perhaps 75 - 100 guys of various ages and skills in the school. We shot the AR-15 out to 200 yards and 300 yards prone on the ground unsupported (except for the ground) using a sling. The good guys put 40 out or 40 on target at each range.....the very good guys could fill a 12 inch circle even at 300 yards with just the peep sights.

Think about it.....if you can hit a 4 inch circle at 100 yards....you can keep it in 12 inch at 300 yards. When I was a boy I had a 6 inch steel plate on a bar at 100 yards and could hit with nearly 100% of the time with my 22LR with peep sights from a prone position. This is where I became good with the rifle.

Back to the AK-47....I still own one....have had a few in the past......they are a good short range fighting gun....and I would not want someone plinking at me at 300 yards = they might hit you....I've shot them out to 300 yards and I can put them on paper and even hit the man sized black with some regularity......but with the AR-15 it is pie plate chest shots all day long.

The AK is just not designed rigid enough, and has too poor of sights.

From my experience....I would not have one as a battle rifle......they are fine for 100 - 150 yard street fighting....but if you only have one shot and it must count....forget it....not enough accuracy. Because of this I mostly view the AK as junk....a fighting rifle should be capable of head shots at 200 - 300 yards with high confidence....here the AK fails big time.


My choice in a fighting rifle: M1 Garand or M1A...never a better rifle built....nearly as accurate as a bolt gun (can be made to be just as accurate)....30.06/308 power, semi-auto, accurate.....it doesn't get any better. A top notch rifleman can hit man sized targets at 500 and 600 yards with high probability with a Garand. You would have a hard time hitting a vehicle with an AK at 500 yards.

Remember, 200 yards is not really that far.....only 30 seconds for a man on foot. Why own a rifle that can't hit a man at 200 to 300 yards if you need it to do the job.

Not ot rag on the AK.....but I'd much rather have a lever action 30-30 under nearly all circumstances.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Hmmm, I get tired of posting this picture. Chinese NHM-91. This one is MINE. They only imported just under 1000 of them before the door slammed shut.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1252460660

AK's that are good out to 200 yards? Cost the same (maybe less) than an AR that is good out to 200 yards. Just shoots a bullet that is twice as heavy as the AR.

Russian PSOP 4x24 scope on this has BDC out to 400 meters (not that I would attempt it, my eyes ain't what they used to be, which was never that great). Red lit reticle for low light.

You can remove the optics and put them back on and retain zero. And you can use the iron sites without removing the optics.

This is just an American company reinventing the wheel. Don't know why.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Ruprick,

1st off, before I start, let me say that I respect your knowledge on firearms and enjoy your posts.

That said, you're way off base on this one - AK's are NOT junk. :rant:

You my friend have not seen an RPK which is a heavy long barrel AK variant with surprisingly good accuracy. It's a squad weapon for sure but the sights are the short coming since it was derived from it's battle ready little brother. This system now available fixes that problem 1-2-3.

2nd, if you're not an AK fan then simply put this thread is not for you and I suggest you go hang out with your AR-15 buddies. That crappy little Youtube video is from the Discovery channel which is supreme bias. Those idiots tested a 2nd rate WASR AK (apologies to the WASR owners) against an AR which costs 3x as much and is better built and I admit that. Closer tolerances go a long way. However, there ARE AK's out there much better made and can hang with the AR's though it's tough and does need some slight mods + a decent shooter to accomplish such feats. 200-yards isn't a problem for a well built and adjusted AK in the hands of an accomplished shooter. 300-yards is stretching it but I'm sure it can be accomplished and especially if you increase the barrel length and re-adjust / move the sights. I mean just look at the normal distance from above the mag well to the barrel end is all you get ??? This is the weak link and not the weapon. Anyhow, go play mall ninja with your AR and leave us AK guys alone, please.

FWIW - I am dedicated to by FAL as my #1 rifle of choice but am always looking for ways to improve the AK. Everytime someone starts in about AR this and AR that it just drives me......well........ :10_1_19:

Cheers Ruprick, but please don't contaminate my thread with your AR dribble.
:confused_ma: -AD

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I too am the proud owner of a Norinco NHM 91. It has the milled receiver and long heavy barrel. I don't know if all NHM 91s are milled or not.

However mine has the ugly butthole stock, just like the MAK 90 has except with a dark brown paint like finish.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

The right tool for the right job.

A few critical 400 yard head shots might not be possible if there's a large group of goons marching down your street looking for Gimmers, at supper time, and you have to bug out in a hurry.

High-stress resource-limited close-range urban combat dominates the 21st century battlefield.

The name of the game is Kalashnikov automatic rifle, model of 1947.

:coolbeer:

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I disagree, the Discovery Channel video isn't biased... it's incompetent. Neither of those monkeys pulling the trigger is a marksman. Neither is getting what their respective rifles are capable of. In fact that whole video has generally been discredited throughout the online shooting community. I have an AR-15 and an AK and outshoot either of those goons. Most people who've been shooting a while can.

There are many people all over the net going on and on about how inaccurate AK's are. All it really shows is ignorance. Sub-2moa AK's abound. Sub-moa AK's exist. There is nothing inaccurate about the Kalashnikov action. The thing is the vast majority of the ones that shoot so well aren't chambered in 7.62x39 and the ones that are don't get those tight groups with cheap, inconsistent Russian ammo. That, and you have to start with a decently built rifle in the first place.

A 7.62x39 AK isn't built for long range shooting. It is capable of hitting targets at surprisingly long distances but the cartridge itself is designed and intended for the express purpose of close range warfare. It's balance of mass, hitting power, moderate recoil and cartridge weight means it excels in this role. Red dots make the most sense on a 7.62x39 AK, followed by low mag scopes for special applications or range shooting. On the other hand if you think shooting neat groups at long distances under sterile conditions has anything to do with fighting you're in desperate need of some training.

As far as scope mounts for AK's go, if you have the side rail you'd probably be better off getting a KV-04s. It is light, holds zero well and doesn't clutter up the rifle. If you can't afford the KV-04s the BP-02 is a good alternative but it is a bit heavier.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Easy my Dragon friend - I did not mean to call your baby ugly.....I did not know you were the spokesman for the AK world.....

Also....AR dribble......I think AR's suck nearly as much as AK's.....I'm no AR fan.

Perhaps i should not say the AK is junk......it is just not a very useful rifle for work much past 200 yards. If the objective is to chuck lead down range...if works fine prehaps even to 300 yards - like I said earlier.....

Let's put it this way......If I had a chance to shoot a deer with an AK (assuming proper bullet design for hunting) and the shot was 200 yards out.....I'd probably not be able to make a humane shot due to poor sights and overall poor accuracy of the rifle. The AR could make the shot.....but seriously lacks in ballistic performance......in my opinion, if it can't kill deer = it is not adequate for hunting man. I'd shoot deer all day in closer with the AK......it just is a very limited use rifle.

I think most optics other than very low power or even a red dot would be a waste of time on the very inaccurate AK.....that was my main point.

Please note - I'm no fan of the AR either.....I own one AK and one AR simply to have an example of each. In my opinion neither is a very good choice in battle rifle...but the AR does have the accuracy edge over the AK hands down. The first rule in rifle fighting is ability to hit what you are shooting at.....ballistics and all that noise are secondary.

AR are pretty junky without a heavy barrel. Any rifle that can't effectively use a sling for precision shooting withou bending the barrel....is not an adequate battle rifle.

Go out and do some serious range work out past 200 yards and tell me about the AK. Like I said - great for spray and pray way out there. Perfectly useble for inside 200 yards. Fantastic for short range work. Nearly junk for any precision shots.

BTW: Battle rifles should only have iron isghts....no scopes.....the AK has terrible sights and a very short sight radius. This is probably 50% of the accuracy disadvantage to the AR. M1/M1A....serious sights.....long radius, tough, precise.

I don't have anything against the AK round.....put it in a Ruger Mini-30.....now, you have a very nice fighting rifle.

I'm a M1 Garand / M1A man....these are the only acceptable battle rifles in my book.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

LaRue Tactical Introduces An AK-Specific Mount

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index....sk=view&id=299


With Kalashnikov-pattern weapons widely fielded by Coalition Forces, LaRue Tactical undertook a project to develop a compact optical mount specific to this well-proven, but aging, design. The result is the new AK-IronDot sighting system.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Nice turn of phrase. Can't say I've heard it called that. I appreciate the butthole stock, though. I may be the only person on the planet who prefers it.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

i put one on my ak over a year ago

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Fair enough, but if you looked at the optics arm with the link above, it includes the 'peep' sight from the kit you can buy from J&G.

That moves the sight from above the mag well to almost near the stock attachment just like a FAL where it should be. With that setup, I think it would be more than fair to see how an AK could hold up long range.

I don't think it's ballistics.........I truly believe it's the gun setup and crappy sight placement that is the major achillies heel of the AK. With some effort it can be a great gun for all ranges. Now, if we're talking about trajectory then yes, the .223 is a flatter arc by far and I can't compare on that level but again it's not much of a penetration round either.

Anyway you slice it, this little gadget I recently discovered seems to be a good answer to the shortcomings of the AK..........and that's my main point.

-AD

:ok:

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

elroy,
Yah, I GOT that ugly butthole stock stashed in the original S/N box that it came in.

Pick up a skeleton stock. I think I got mine from Centerfire for like $15. I still have not made up my mind. Go with a light finish (easily done). Or darken the whole thing. I lean towards the lighter finish, because if I EVER wanted to put the old rear stock back on, I wouldn't have to change the forend stock.

And yeah, heavy milled receiver, heavy barrel. But dead bang on. Well out past 200 meters. I can hit man sized target at 100 yards with iron sites. The groups get really smaller when I use the scope.

And yah, AK's can't hit the broad side of a barn. Here's a Krink and target shot at 100 yards with iron sites.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1252468228

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Except for the grip and the krink rear sight, that is what my Draco looks like now. Added a rear sling swivel earlier today.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

It's definitely time to say hello to the 21st century and modernize the forces! :biggrin: Optics make target acquisition faster, make aimed fire possible in low/no light and make hits more sure at long ranges. Some can even perform special tricks like allowing you to shoot around corners without exposing your body to enemy fire. It's good to know how to use your irons in case you have to but "irons only" has been obsolescent on fighting rifles for a long time. Perhaps by "battle rifle" you mean a rifle for target shooting on the range some sunny afternoon?

Only if you have a full length barrel on that AR. The AK has a longer sight radius than an M4. Additionally the AK's irons are designed to allow you an unobstructed field of view, unlike the large hooded affairs some rifles place right below your eyelid. The actual style of sight has been used on everything from pistols to military rifles designed to engage at extreme distances. I'm amazed people still repeat this stuff without even doing a reality check first. This one is almost as classic as AK's having a short length of pull.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Toys for the AK. gotta love em weather you need em or not.:565:

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Check out the ak guys trigger pull at about 3:35 in the video, shooting at the wood 4x4's. No wonder he couldn't hit the target at 200.

Wow just give it a hard yank next time.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I'm not much of a AK47 fan as I am the SKS carbine.
I like the lighter weight of the SKS compared to the MIA.
The AR is a fine rifle, but you have to sink in some money with a good stainless barrel which makes the rifle heavy and expensive.
A friend was sighting in his 308 AR over the weekend at a half a freaken mile and he was putting everything in a 5 inch circle at that range. But he's tripled the price of a normal AR to get it that way. Scope alone was something like $2500.00.
Its not a battle rifle anymore its a heavy dam sniper rifle that you can only use for coyotes in these parts.
I have a 1954 Russian SKS thats pretty dam accurate at 300 after being retriggered, restocked and scoped. A very good accurate carbine rifle for the price. I just wish it could be setup for the 7.62 x 54.
I'll agree to a degree with Rup on the older rifles as a battle rifle, but I can see the need for a scope and high capacity mag in a worse case scenario urban situation.
I like the SKS. It has never jammed and very accurate, but like any rifle out there you can modify it to be as accurate as the next rifle.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

This style of mount is a copy of the Polish military Radom design for the Beryl AK variant in 5.56. On the Polish version the iron sights remain intact
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6568/dsc028719gf.jpg

notice 3 rivets on the rear trunnion instead of 2
Attachment 78730

Attachment 78731

Attachment 78732

Attachment 78733

Here's my Beryl parts kit I managed to score on GB 6 months ago. I gathered the rest of the parts needed. Hoping to have it built by December.

Attachment 78734

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Here's a better shot of the quick detach top rail.
Attachment 78735

I haven't seen any that will fit a yugo yet.

Zastava is making an M21 in 5.56 that has a top rail. That may fit a M70 yugo

Decent optics would come in handy on an AK in 5.45 or 5.56. My tantal, AK74 and 84s shoot pretty tight groups at 100yds with iron sights. The tantal puts 1.5" groups on paper benched with a few straglers using cheap surplus ammo. I have a cheap remington 710 in 30.06 that barely hangs with that and it has a big scope sitting on it.

I am thinking hard about one of these US made mounts for my Tantal as well. They look sharp and the price is much cheaper than the original Polish military part.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Back to the op's gear link. I like the top rail.
I have one and it works well.You have to bring the front sight up over the wings though to get a sight alignment.

Not the best setup but it puts a red dot lower than the side rail mounts I was using.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

AK's don't need scopes ever

that's like putting a lift kit on a honda civic

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Here's another option:

M1 / AR style peep sights for AK, SKS, 10/22 at http://tech-sights.com/

Put the same style sights on all your guns for consistancy.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Here's what Zastava is using for a top rail. Maybe someone will copy or import these one day. Hinging the top cover is an interesting idea. This would allow it to work on an underfolder. Looks like it will mount to a standard sight block as well. The yugo M21 uses the same RPK style receiver, except chambered in 5.56.

This one's all Iraq dirty

Attachment 78785

Attachment 78786
Not the same top cover but a cool looking rifle
Attachment 78787
Galil style selector
Attachment 78788

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Has anyone compared the accuracy of the Ak to the SKS?

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.p...aeb056c7b132f&

a great forum for tons of Info on SKS and even AK's.

Many there seem to prefer the SKS over the AK accuracy wise. I havent had a chance to shoot my SKS at further htan 50 yards yet(no ranges near by), but it is fun to shoot!


FWIW, there is an SKS that accepts AK mags, called an SKS-D or -M. Many people on those SKS forums REALLY enjoy them and theres hot debate between them an the AKs. there are many aftermarket stocks for the SKS's to make them a bit more...ergonomicaly friendly. Not to mention 20 round detatchable tapco mags that fit any standard sks.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

If they build them anywhere near as good as Molot does they'll be tack drivers.

That's a nice kit you have. Are you aware that you can get the web gear and tac vests that go with it from Miwo?

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

Thanks. I'd never heard of them. They have some nice looking stuff there. Thanks for the heads up!

I need one of these

58,90 PLN - hmm, I guess that's $20.60 USD.

Re: AK owners - it's here !.....Finally a top scope mount that holds Zero !!!
 

I'd like to pick up a KT-8.

http://miwo-military.com/-produkty/p...TAKTYCZNA-KT-8

Unfortunately American tactical gear manufacturers don't understand AK's at all. The two biggest problems I have run into are that either the flaps on the mag pouches don't close all the way or else the pouch will hold two steel 30 round mags but can only hold one Bulgarian waffle mag. The Eastern Bloc stuff actually works right and I like the Polish tac vests even more than the Russian. And I know real Russian gear, not just the Splav stuff.